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Post by snoggy on Apr 20, 2013 21:04:58 GMT -8
Twice during ops we've been pulled out of skywatch, told there won't be any skywatch tonight.... and told to go ground with the tankers or somesuch.
What gives? Rather pisses me off.
Honestly, next time it happens I think we should just leave the platoon and form our own squad to do air stuff.
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Post by Changes on Apr 21, 2013 19:15:04 GMT -8
I'm really sorry man.
The main issue that we are having is the lack of consistent leadership with Skywatch.
We are open to any suggestions you have. Do you have any suggestions on how to fix this?
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Post by dclxvi on Apr 21, 2013 20:22:54 GMT -8
I think solutions to this are being brainstormed time now. It's an established fact that having you watching from above is a boon for everyone.
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Post by snoggy on Apr 22, 2013 2:28:39 GMT -8
Well, two options.
One is to just have us group up with other air squads on the TTA server. I know MERC's and others run air groups and we can easily team up with them. Strength in numbers, as it were.
Ideally you'd have a giant air quake of libbies and mossies that can shift to where they are needed regardless of outfit affiliations. I've already chatted with a lot of the MERC crew and it seems feasible.
The second is abandon the idea of the skywatch being purely anti-air. Make it an anti-ground force.. libs supported by mossies. Leave the anti-air defense to the far superior bursters and skyguards. Let the air guys roam around and lend support where they can. That's what I've been doing.
A lot of the times the groundies are just in areas that the air can't get to... by sheer fact that you are surrounded by tough objectives. Trying to attack around major objectives like regent rock or.. that tower place.. or howling pass without owning rashnu means you won't have air support at all.
You have to understand that flying in the air means you can get engaged by manpads and AA fire from 2-3 hexes away... so going on rambo ops through enemy lines is out of bounds for us, we'll get torn up by every wandering ESF and burster on the map.
Not only that, but having the air squad able to wander lets them fill in command on what is actually happening, in real time. I mean, there are a lot of times i've decided that the ground target is far too unsuitable for me to be flying around, so I wander off and find easier pickings and have kept such and such informed as to what's going on.. rather than wait for command chat or the orders thingy to let anyone know. Case and point, attacking TI alloys without owning the crown is just asking to get shot down.... lulz pun!
As a side note, remember that the more the enemy invest in AA, the less they have for AT and AI.... for every skyguard and burster max etc... or someone looking up.. the less there are looking down...
Ideally i'd structure it as 2-3 libbies supported by 5 mossies working on a system where the libbies drift in and make their attack runs, if they get a lot of flak they can drift back and repair.. if they pick up a reaver or two when withdrawing our mossies can swoop in and pick them off.
It's fairly simple and i've seen it done a lot. Now, in the same vein, attacking next to warpgates is suicide for pilots, in such cases.. like further north than mao.. it's not hard for us to just sit on the ground and use bursters and skyguards.. but in other situations I find it much easier to just go where we are needed... and where we can fight... which requires a totally different perspective than the groundies.
Edit: As far as addressing lack of skywatch numbers, fairly easy... we need libby gunners. Most of the experienced people have well certed mossies and a few libs.. let them use those and the new people can be gunners... bit of a learning curve but it does give them something fun to do. Every libby needs a gunner, afterall. And if the mossies are kept back, as stated above, they won't be involved in the nasty flak that usually revolves around heavily contested objectives. Keep them high and engaging enemy air rather than suicide strafing runs on ground targets.
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Post by magnifiscent on Apr 22, 2013 9:22:23 GMT -8
Snoggy has some good ideas. I've been playing with the idea of suggesting a restructuring of skywatch since Friday.
I've been busy with the baby for the past 6 weeks or so, but things are starting to calm down. I have to log in a few hours late on Friday Night Ops and it is distressing to see the skywatch channel empty and learn that there was no leadership.
I don't know what is going on with ATR and can't comment there as I haven't been on as much as I needed to be either, especially on Friday nights. Making sure the wife is in good shape while on maternity leave means I have to get her out on friday nights. When she returns to work, I'll have some fridays back again.
My suggestions would go to this:
1. Overhaul the skywatch requirements. Mossie flying isn't what it used to be and until they get the AA under control again we won't see significant dog fighting. It would seem to me that our requirements might be keeping a lot of people interested in flying out of the unit. Refocusing Skywatch on ground attack means there is a lot of room for new people to come in as libby gunners and learn while sitting in that seat. New members can join as a lib crewman. There might not even be a need for skywatch recruits to be specialists within the outfit, either. High requirements weed people out before training, but are an obstacle a lot of people feel isn't worth it. Flying is fun; putting in 16 hours of work before even joining can be tedious for all but the most dedicated pilots. I think we can just as easily weed people out during training while removing the initial obstacle.
2. Re-structure the leadership. Keeping ATR on as the over-all commander if he's interested is fine, but we need to subdivide to increase the chance that a leader is on. If ATR is still interested, set him as Squadron CO, give him an XO. Put a sub-division in for mosquito and Liberator flight leaders who can and want to take command during ops where the Squadron leads have to be absent. I'd be on all the time if I could. It really bothers me to know that if I'm not on, there isn't someone who can step into my role and take over. They don't need to be willing to take over everything like organization and administration, but a couple of guys to lead a flight and coordinate with the main platoon is vital.
3. During ops, Skywatch needs more autonomy - similar to Spec Ops. It is impossible for SkyWatch to directly support the platoon during the deep pushes we tend to make. Skywatch just can't operate behind enemy lines effectively. That's doesn't mean we can support you guys or be effective, but it needs to be more of a situation where the ground platoon is calling in air strikes so that skywatch can hit a target hard and then fade back without having to feel like we're exposed.
Skywatch doesn't need to have a lot of members on at the same time to be effective. A lib and a trio of mossies can destroy a tank column. I annihilated a 4 vanguard column solo last night on Esamir. A small flight attacking specific targets in support of the main platoon would be more than enough to turn the tide and be useful.
I think Snoggy is right, and there are many things we can do to put some life back into the skywatch. I will, of course, help with whatever is needed and would like to submit myself for the XO position to help moderate the boards here (since I'm on them constantly during the week), maintain the roster, and handle applications. There are a lot of minor house-keeping things that need to be done that aren't because ATR doesn't have time and no one else has the authority.
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Post by snoggy on Apr 23, 2013 1:58:49 GMT -8
I agree whole-heartedly. The air is should be more of a scalpel than a butchers cleaver. If you throw up a waypoint on a sundy, I can pretty much do a gun run and burn it down with my tank buster and then my gunner can finish it off with one or two dalton rounds.
Hovering over contested targets is death.. with the amount of AA fire it's just not feasible until the groundies have sniped off all the bursters.
We do have a lot of people who fly, but aren't in skywatch for one reason or another. (I might suggest changing the name to something a little more sinister).
I personally don't think there should be too too many requirements to get into skywatch. We have plenty of people with well certed libbies, we just lack gunners and mossie pilots. Especially mossie pilots who are certed for AA. That means tomcats and all that.
And more autonomy is a must. It's not like tanks or infantry where we can sort of camp out in a piece of terrain and shoot things.. we are vulnerable to anything that wishes to shoot at us from multiple directions. A lot of the time I just sit at max vis range with G1caliver and let him plink armor targets. Might not get a ton of kills but we push them back. Going after infantry is suicide unless the target's nicely locked down.
We do need to run some training though, especially for gunners. They need to learn to choose their own targets.... AA's like bursters and skyguards first.. then sundies.. then tanks.. then infantry.... unless the pilot specifically calls out a target... if you are going in fast and low.. then the pilot slows and burns off a clip of tank buster, you best be looking forward to finish off whatever he was shooting at.
Spreading out the leadership is another good idea. Of course everyone has real life obligations that do come first but dropping the skywatch wing merely because there are no official leaders on is not the answer. I don't mind leading a liberator wing with experienced pilots and new gunners. There are a few tricks and there are a lot of things that gunners need to realize about what the pilot can and cannot do.
Example: The pilot is looking forward, usually in 3rd person. The gunner is always looking down.. the pilot can easily spot targets and line up for a run with his tank buster... the gunner can't see anything really until the pilot finishes his clip and pulls up to egress or hover.. it's then up to the gunner to pick the target and finish it... something he can't do if he's looking a different direction and plinking infantry... Not to mention the skill required to shoot long range, max visual distance... daltons have a LOT of drop and hitting anything with accuracy takes skill because you not only have to manage the drop of the round, but also the drift of the plane as it moves in any direction so leading targets is terribly difficult.
In the end, if you hear the pilot firing his tank buster.. that usually means there is something in front you need to be looking for. Not to mention we need to get away from relying on the rear gun. The AA gun is useless and the grenade launcher is moderately more useful, need to learn to use the main gun for AA... it's a tricky business and relies a lot on the pilot to shift his gunner so he can see the target. I personally rely on sound.. that whine of a scythe or reaver is very easy to orient myself so I know kinda where the bad guy is. (Hence why I am anal on coms, hard to listen for reavers and scythes when people are talking about D&D and the latest pokemon cards).
Just my 2 cents
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Post by magnifiscent on Apr 23, 2013 20:40:37 GMT -8
I didn't realize that I could still get to the boards until just now, so I'm late in posting. I talked to Talron last night and we're about to do a major shake up here.
I don't want to over-step and say anything until I've got confirmation, but a lot of changes are about to come down the pipe.
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