|
|
Post by magnifiscent on Apr 28, 2014 10:13:28 GMT -8
For the announcement go here: www.totalrecoil.boards.net/thread/3143/week-on-fnoNow, let's get down to brass tacks. My thoughts on this subject go along these lines: We do not want just a giant armored zerg. Tanks get in each other's way, bottle up, and get annihilated. Armored zergs are vulnerable and slow. We don't want just a huge group of MBTs sitting around an enemy base camping the spawn and yawning. I'm suggesting 5 prowlers to form the core with an ammo sundy and gunner. That's Alpha. Add to this a sundy with rep, some infantry (carrying skeps, AV turrets, strikers, and fractures), and a pair of lightnings attached to the prowlers. That's bravo. Charlie is primarily a recon force - 2 harassers and the rest are lightnings with HEAT, but they maintain a rep or ammo sundy that stays with the main group. Delta provides skyguards, or friendly air if necessary. I'd like to keep the focus on tanks, but if skyguards are too bulky or not effective, we can move our air cover to the sky. 5 prowlers are enough to provide effective fire support without too much congestion. This is a manageable number. The ammo sundy is obvious. Bravo is designed to provide some more support with the sundy and infantry. The infantry should be focused on supporting column - either engaging tanks with infantry weapons or protecting the group from enemy infantry. Charlie is a recon unit. With fasting lightnings and harassers, they get a handle on where the enemy is vulnerable, locate key targets, and protect the flanks of the main group. They maintain a sundy with the group for support and spawning. Delta provides air cover as usual - most of the pilots also have skyguards. The goal is not to necessarily push lanes or cap bases. We will quickly get bogged down into the hum drum and the armor will be useless. I want to focus on one thing - search and destroy. We're out to kill the enemy. When TXR mech is running, the enemy doesn't get to pull tanks. They don't get to foot zerg. We will OWN the areas between bases. We will eliminate sunderer spawns, flank and destroy tank zergs, intercept reinforcements from the warp gate...whatever we want to do. Let the TTA or the pubbies take bases. We're going to kill. What I'd love to see us do is engage enemy armor zergs and wipe them out. Ideally, I'd like to see us playing smart, maneuvering around the enemy zerg and then hitting them from behind. Pub zergs are not coordinated. They don't talk to each other. A mass of tanks is typically a collection of single tanks camping spawns. Easy pickings for a coordinated group. One big question mark I've got is resupply. Obviously we'll lose tanks. Pulling new tanks from the warp gate is not an option with travel time. We need to identify places that we can hack terminals for new tanks (air towers, etc). |
|
|
|
Post by FroyoBaggins on Apr 28, 2014 21:18:39 GMT -8
I was with NEON for a week and they run armor squads fairly often(Not particularly effective squads, but they have some good ideas). When they reach a base they use a formation with 2 tanks in front, 1 on each side, and 2 sunderers (one ammo and proximity repair)in the middle of the tanks. They always travel in a column. If they get stuck fighting armor on the road they'll deploy the sunderers in the back and the armor will try to fill out a phalanx formation as wide as the road. If they decide to bombard a base they'll form a line with the sunderers in the back. That is about all I remember. We don't have NEON's numbers so doing something like a phalanx or a bombardment line might not be practical. Anyways just some ideas to consider if Mechanized gets rolling.
|
|
|
|
Post by magnifiscent on Apr 29, 2014 8:43:30 GMT -8
The formations seem consistent with what I've read of armor tactics. They are easily done with 5 tanks. That's the RL size for a tank platoon anyway.
The real trick, from my limited experience, is not creating a traffic jam that traps the lead tank when you make contact. The tanks (and other vehicles) have to continue to maneuver to get good shots on the targets and make sure the lead tanks have room to move as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by PoorRichard (AKA - The Guido) on Apr 29, 2014 9:00:19 GMT -8
Real life size for US Army tank platoons are 4 tanks. Could be 5 if the Commander or Executive Officers have attached themselves and their tanks to a line platoon. A tank company consists of 3 line platoons of 4 tanks each with 2 tanks, a 113 for the 1SG, 5-ton truck or equivalent, and a couple HMMWVs in the Headquarters Platoon. That's the way it was in 2010. 5-tons have been swapped out for LMTVs and HMMWVs are going out the window. Main point though, the tanks remained the same. No vehicles for maintenance as they come from the Headquarters Company and may be attached permanently to a company later and their vehicles would be added to the company composition then.
|
|
|
|
Post by FroyoBaggins on Apr 29, 2014 15:19:40 GMT -8
One thing I will recommend is squads have a dedicated Kobalt or Basilisk gunner for all NC fights that prioritizes Phoenix Rockets. Most NC fights will have one or two Phoenix Rocket-Launcher users, but occasionally they'll have four or five that start working together. It is possible to use a vulcan, halberd, or marauder to hit the missiles, but it is much harder.
|
|
|
|
Post by magnifiscent on Apr 30, 2014 7:32:24 GMT -8
For the Prowlers I'm thinking mostly Halberds, but I DO want a kobalt on each sunderer. We've proven gal drops on armor columns are nasty, so I wanted to keep infantry and anti-infantry support weapons near the tanks.
I'm also thinking the lightnings should be using HEAT mostly.
We're going to have to be smart about picking our fights, but I think we'll be able to have some good fun if I can keep us out of the wrong situations.
|
|
|
|
Post by dacommando on May 2, 2014 4:13:42 GMT -8
I'll volunteer my ammo or repair sundy (I've got one or the other) to be the bus boy. I'll actually be able to get on tonight! It's the end of finals!
|
|
|
|
Post by hallafax on May 2, 2014 12:26:20 GMT -8
If dibs haven't been called yet, I would like to take the spot of the recon squad lead. Sounds like an interest squad to be in let alone a challenging leadership spot. Who ever it is, they will be yell the most in comms tonight.
Good to have you back DC
|
|
|
|
Post by sagramorepain on May 3, 2014 7:59:07 GMT -8
Before I had my hiatus from PS2 I used to run with the 666 armor platoon on a regular basis, being a tanker has always been enjoyable for me and if its going to be a regular TXR thing I would love to be apart of that.
The best advice I can offer for just starting out with tactics is to sync up with Air for support and recon as much as possible, they get a better, less confusing view of things which can lead to better coordination of strikes from the Tank columns.
In my experience it is better to have just a few lightnings and primarily 1-2 squads of Heavy Tanks, 1-2 lightnings for Skyguard security, if you need anti-inf you can designate a couple of prowlers with HE, they will have better survivability then a roaming HE lightning. Other then that dont bunch up, overlap and coordinate your targets, this is key for anti armor operations.
Last but not least with Prowlers you need mass fire, clear LOS, and preferably cover, the most important job a squad or platoon leader can have is setting rally points in these areas so that the tanks can setup and cover each other, so an eye for terrain is a must!
|
|
|
|
Post by tarz on May 3, 2014 11:03:38 GMT -8
Some thoughts on last night's armor column:
1. Economy is king. For a successful aggressive armor column we need at least 60 mechanized resources per tic. While the initial resource state can alleviate a few pulls, without steady mechanized income MBTs are simply too expensive to pull and maintain. Armor columns will be, unfortunately, limited by our controlled area, as the cost is extreme.
2. Force dispersion could be modified. At times we were extremely spread out, at others extremely close together. As Burns so aptly put it, "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray," and we should expect any planning to be very thinly followed once the shit starts hitting the fan. That being said, discipline should still be enforced to some extent.
3. Our infantry should be deployed in tandem. In a full FNO our highly mobile style of play will be taxing on the best tankers. Ideally, our tankers need to be able to respond instantly to calls for armor, but also be willing to abandon said armor when it is no longer tactically relevant. This leads me to believe that for armor to fit into our style of play, we should either only pull the minimum number of MBTs necessary to achieve control of a given point, or pull only lighter armor in favor of being able to pull more frequently. Quite frankly, our tankers should expect to fight outgunned in most situations simply because of the resource economics in place.
4. Rally and organization times could be improved. Dedicated MBT partners, Sunderer teams, etc, for the entire op went a long way, but the time to deployment for armor is high. Quite frankly, these grouping times will be the biggest challenge. To be effective we need to be together, and the time it takes simply for all vehicles to spawn is still significantly greater than the time it takes for an infantry squad to deploy and load into a galaxy are not even remotely on the same scale.
So what do we do with armor? Armor is going to need to be a measured movement that is called upon by the PL when he/she judges it's time. Armor cannot be constantly maintained. That being said, if we need resistance neutralized rapidly so we can get our infantry in the door, then we bring tanks. Armor is the 'haymaker', the punch people can see you telegraphing from a mile away, but if you connect, that fight is done. Future goals should be deploy times, rapid response and organization, and tank "fire team" tactics and coordination.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hereticus on May 3, 2014 13:25:58 GMT -8
Armor does not have the luxury of switching loadouts on the fly at a terminal to a consistently changing environment, because of this you need a general purpose loadout for your Armor group that will serve well for most situations.
In a basic 12 Player Armor Squad:
- 4 Prowlers: 2(3) HEAT w/ Vulcan and 1 Tank Destroyer AP /w Halberd. 2 players per Tank.
- 1(2) Ammo/Repair Sunderer w/ Bulldog & Walker Turrets.
Performance and Defense are optional to the preference of the individual tanker, Utility should always be Anchored Mode.
Lightning Tanks loadouts should be chosen depending on the relevance of allied air-support. Skyguards if there is none or weak air-support, HEAT if there is heavy air-support.
Performance Rival, Defense Stealth, Utility IR Smoke. Take advantage of the Lightnings small profile to flank and ambush.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hereticus on May 3, 2014 13:45:30 GMT -8
Armor is also a very different playstyle from piloting or Infantry, some principles remain the same such as run away to kite the enemy into a better position or take advantage of cover and corners but the pace is the biggest difference.
Armored combat involves a lot of patience and a conscience effort to stay alive because of the danger in Resource costs and cool-down timers. If you have attention problems or a lack of patience then Tanking isn't for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hereticus on May 3, 2014 13:52:35 GMT -8
Fielding heavy armor involves changing the entire dynamic and role of the Platoon and the Ops.
|
|
|
|
Post by dacommando on May 3, 2014 21:04:21 GMT -8
I don't think the armor attempt was bad at all, I just think we need some more practice. Everyone else seems to have what units we need, but I'd like to talk about what is needed training wise.
One thing I know is we may want to consider dedicated gunner training too. More specifically, calling out targets and the gunners responding appropriately. This is more important with Sundys, but those also can provide longer range support. Things like learning the clock hand system and knowing what the different heights are (low, mid, high)
Another thing, like someone said, is we need to focus on formations and focusing fire. I'm just throwing my two bits in though.
|
|
|
|
Post by sagramorepain on May 3, 2014 21:58:46 GMT -8
Yea dedicated gunner as partners to switch with are a great idea, setting up whispers with them so you can coordinate fire and not flood the channel. Experience and training will make any armor group run much more smoothly, either way it was a blast, was glad to be apart of it!
|
|
|
|
Post by magnifiscent on May 5, 2014 11:14:17 GMT -8
Glad to see responses on this topic and that it wasn't quite the disaster I feared. You can definitely tell this was my first armored ops. I have read each response and our next venture into this area will take all of your suggestions into account.
A big thanks to everyone who stuck it out while we're relearning how to do armor effectively.
Some things that I saw that might be of note - We fought a recursion armored unit 3 times. We fought a FCRW armored unit twice. I don't want to make a bigger deal out of those outfits than they deserve, but they are top tier and they are both fielding armor in situations where they find them useful. That means we can too.
I think we're going to need some armor practice during the week. I'll look into setting that up. Maybe we can coordinate that with the air training and get the two groups working well together.
I'm also going to get some better comms set up. I did not have the full-platoon push set up, so some time-sensitive directions were being relayed through the chain of command. I think a few times that hurt us a bit.
If you guys are willing to keep at it, I promise I'll work my butt off to make it worth it for our tankers. See you all next time!
|
|
