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Post by hops on Feb 10, 2014 13:34:43 GMT -8
Why do we still ignore the points in favor of the gens? Back in the day, this was about being sneaky. Now the map shows troop strength and gen status. Not getting the point right away just gives them a few more minutes to respond when the fight should be over already.
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Post by Hereticus on Feb 10, 2014 14:48:20 GMT -8
Break someones knees and they can't walk. Break a Bio-Labs generators and they can't spawn. It's a matter of time, energy, and manpower IMO. What is most convenient?
To nock out the Generators you only need be concerned with 2 Objectives relatively close to eachother with narrow bottlenecks to choke the enemy. Doing this is easier to accomplish with your squad.
The Alternative being spread what forces you have thin and slug it out to hold 3 distant objectives that's difficult to reinforce each point given the distance needed to travel through a enemy held facility, Holding the objective points for X amount of time for the capture.
The latter being easier only when you have overwhelming numbers and effective fighters vs a incompetent enemy garrison.
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Post by dacommando on Feb 10, 2014 15:36:36 GMT -8
Plus most of the zerg only responds to a territory once it's contested. The generators don't count as being contested, capping points does. I've led a number of squads that steamrolled a biolab because we didn't cap a single point until the spawn rooms went down.
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Post by hops on Feb 10, 2014 17:22:34 GMT -8
It'd be great if you could just break the biolab's knees. Just let it fall to the ground and go on. Maybe roll some sunderers in there. But, no, biolabs don't walk anyhow. Even with the spawn gen down, the defenders will almost always have nearby spawns at least as good as the attacker's.
I'm mostly in agreement that the gens should be the focus (most of the time, not always). The shield room does have nice bottlenecks. The SCU, though is a bottleneck for the attackers and the defenders can come right out of the spawn room from several angles and chew up the attackers on the way to the SCU and inside. How bloody would that room be if this game had a little gore?
Several times recently, I have seen an attack that would have been won shortly on the B and C points alone fail because almost everyone rushed the SCU, died, and the defenders could clean up with leisure, grab points back and reset the clock.
Also, B is practically in the shield gen room. Someone needs to be controlling that approach anyhow. C is right outside the shield gen room and there's a route between the two that is fairly safe (and keeps you in the range of revive nades thrown from the safety of the shield gen room). Rockets and nades from the C room is part of what often melts that SCU rush.
None of that is actually the point I was intending to make... but now that I think about it, yes, the SCU rush is probably where most biolab assaults lose.
The point that I intended to make was more about trying to sneak a biolab. I've been there when it's worked. There are some circumstances when that should be the first approach. Usually, though, you been fighting a force for a few territories ahead of time. They know your next target. Thank you, lattice. You're not going to sneak it. There are going to be hotspots on the map. Enemies are going to start responding, so are friendlies. The fight is going to grow. Give the defenders enough time to notice there's a biolab defense farm available and they'll respond. Why not go ahead and start the clock while you have the advantage?
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Post by Hereticus on Feb 10, 2014 19:43:16 GMT -8
Yeah, stealthy grabs defidently need to be a greater focus of practice, absolutely.
There are times when the enemy main zerg are just to tunnel vision on some big turtle fight that you could get away with ninja the Bio-Lab via stealth methods. I think though at that point it's SL/PL's discretion, Whoever is SL/Pling also needs to have the experience to recognize on the map when the enemy is tunnel visioning on a fight or have the intelligence to at least pickup on regular patters of some of the enemy Outfits.
666 You know will tunnel vision or over compensate, dedicating there force to a fight with no interest in a rear-guard.
Havoc you know won't defend, won't bring vehicles, and all pack in a corner so one good explosive and it's GG.
Recursion know how to be flexible and respond accordingly to the map.
Future Crew will always be defending at fights where the VS are outnumbered.
so on etc... You pickup on little things and it's easier to figure out what will happen on the map.
In my experience when leading it's tough trying to go for the ghost caps to benefit the Empire vs satisfying that blood lust of the squad to charge into significant fights... I tend to lean heavier on the prior just because I know how frustrating it is to try and pull vehicles when the Empire doesn't have the territory to give you resources...
Given enough training and practice, we'll be able to take a Bio-Lab as well as Recursion takes Tech-Plants.
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Post by Hans1942 on Feb 11, 2014 8:10:10 GMT -8
Why do we still ignore the points in favor of the gens? Back in the day, this was about being sneaky. Now the map shows troop strength and gen status. Not getting the point right away just gives them a few more minutes to respond when the fight should be over already. Most zergs don't respond to populations. They respond to a map showing them a timer ticking down. So even with the map showing troop strength, the enemy faction will ignore as long as you don't take their point. |
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Post by magnifiscent on Feb 12, 2014 13:26:16 GMT -8
Most zergs don't respond to populations. They respond to a map showing them a timer ticking down. So even with the map showing troop strength, the enemy faction will ignore as long as you don't take their point. It's true that you still have to defend the points after the SCU is down and that when an enemy grabs the satellite facilities, they have spawns that are as good as your own. However, with the SCU up, the defenders have a BETTER spawn than the attackers; it's closer and harder to suppress. Taking the SCU does take an advantage away from the defenders and puts them on equal footing (spawn-wise) with the attackers making a biolab a meeting engagement rather than an assault. It's not a fool-proof plan, but sometimes it makes a difference where the extra 10 or 15 seconds on a capture point only serves to alert defenders. |
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